Podcast Episode #31 Networking your way to Success with The Network Catalyst, Kerryn Powell

Episode 27

In this episode, Leah interviews Kerryn Powell, Founder of The Network Catalyst and business networking group Your Time Matters.  

Kerryn has been helping people build authentic connections and conversations for over 30 years and she understands that in this ever-changing business landscape, it has never been more important to connect with the right people to build trusted and profitable relationships.

In this episode we talked Leah and Kerryn discussed:

  • Kerryn’s own career journey prior to starting her own business and how she joined the dots
  • How Kerryn came to be so passionate about networking
  • The most common fears that people have when it comes to networking
  • Effective networking strategies that suit people who don’t like large events
  • Kerryn’s hot tips for people who find that making small talk doesn’t come naturally
  • Kerryn’s business networking group ‘Your Time Matters’ and who can join 
  • Success stories from networking at ‘Your Time Matters’
  • Kerryn’s top 3 tips for people who have a fear of networking 

To connect with Kerryn or to hear more about Your Time Matters, you can find her at the following links:

Website – www.kerryn-powell.com.au
YTM website – www.yourtimematters.com.au
Kerryn’s podcast – Conversations and Connections to Amplify and Inspire
Kerryn’s online course – How to Start or Improve your Business Networking


Leah Lambart 0:02
Welcome to the Relaunch Your Career podcast. I'm your host Leah
Lambart, career and interview coach and Founder of Relaunch Me,
where we help you find the work that you were meant to do.
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Relaunch Your Career
podcast. For those who are new listeners, great to have you here and
for those who are regular listeners, welcome back. Today I am very
excited to introduce you to my guest, Kerryn Powell, founder of The
Network Catalyst and business networking group, Your Time Matters.
Kerryn has over 30 years experience building networks and
communities and she helps others to make the right connections, find
solutions and achieve their business goals. Welcome to the podcast
Kerryn Powell 0:58 Nice to be with you today.
Leah Lambart 1:00 It's great to have you here Kerryn. You know, the reason I asked you to join us is that I know that many of my clients and our listeners really struggle with networking and I feel that this year has been obviously more challenging than most when it comes to networking with all the restrictions we've had and being locked up in our houses. So I really appreciate you joining me today to share your wisdom on the power of networking. This podcast, as you know, is focused on helping people facilitate career change and find meaningful careers. You have quite an interesting career journey yourself. I wondered if we could start with you sharing your own career story and some of the changes that you've made, because I think they are quite interesting.
Kerryn Powell 1:51 So firstly, I would say that networking is a life skill, and everyone is networking every minute of their waking day. And it's not just about business, it's about professional connections as well and your personal life and I suppose it's not until you perhaps sit and consider and connect the dots in your life, that your pathway becomes clear. Steve Jobs actually said that to the Stanford graduates, I think back in 1995, I think it was to connect the dots. So if you look at my dots going back, there is a connection of being interested in people, helping them to achieve their goals, supporting them along their journey, and helping them to think forward and all our skills are transferable. I started my career in the travel industry although I actually always wanted to be a teacher. My parents split up when I was in year 12 and it didn't look possible for me to go to a teacher's college at that time. So through my mother's network, I got a job in the travel industry and I worked in the travel industry for eight years, helping people book their holidays, organising conferences, helping them bring their dream to life and I learned at that time to ask qualifying questions, to listen to what people wanted and to then go through the process of putting a project together. I always wanted to teach though and so when I met my husband through my network, he said 'go back to teaching'. I had never wanted to be someone who would say "if only I had tried". So I went back to teaching and really enjoyed it, I had always wanted to be a teacher but with a husband that travelled and with young children, there came a point in my life where it was time to move on. I then moved into relocation of international families and I found that they were moving countries and would come to Melbourne and didn't know anybody. I hadn't lived overseas in that capacity but I had moved from one side of Melbourne to another and I knew how much you rely on a network to help you to find experience and the knowledge and the things you need. I've skipped quite a few things because I also ran a craft market, but I help people to find what they need through the people that they are connected to and to help them to start those conversations and to work their way through. I think transferable skills are a really important thing to remember and all the people that you have connected with along your journey. In fact, this morning I had a LinkedIn message from one of the clients I met in relocation who now lives in America that returned home. He actually shared a story with me that he has a family whatsapp group that they call 'bonsai'. And he shared with me that I told him many years ago when we met, that the age his children were, which was about three and five, that "you should bonsai them, that that's a great age". And so he called his whatsapp group bonsai. And I didn't remember even saying that, but I made an impression on him seven years ago, that has since played out in their family life. So the connections you make sometimes are intangible.
Leah Lambart 5:42 That's right. I love that story and I totally agree. I wish I could have bonsai'd my kids. So working in relocation you were the network for people when they first arrived in a new country or a new city, was that when you became passionate about networking? Kerryn Powell 6:08 Actually starting a business around networking come from curiosity and interest in what people do, and I think, because I hadn't lived in another country, I think it was almost like a virtual reality, hearing their stories about how they had perhaps lived in seven different countries, or it took them two hours to get to work or the jobs that they had done. One family that I relocated were in a science field and actually created mice for research and I had never heard of that sort of profession. I didn't know that somebody did that, and of course, they do, but I just hadn't given it any thought. They had moved countries and they needed support and I'm still friendly with them now, because I have a nurturing nature, I think, and I almost become part of the family. But I had also grown up in a small-business family and I knew that running a small business is incredibly challenging and you can feel very isolated and not lack knowledge and lack support. And sometimes you just want to talk with people that understand what you're going through. I'd been networking when I started my own business, and had been to a range of networking events but I felt sometimes you just didn't really get to build a relationship or have a conversation that they were a bit transactional. So I created a platform that brings people together to have conversations and to build relationships, and to generate business, definitely. But it's organically rather than any set agenda.
Leah Lambart 7:48 So this is Your Time Matters, which you're talking about now, which is your networking group. Is that a Melbourne based group?
Kerryn Powell 7:56 It is a Melbourne based group. However, since COVID, and locked down, we are now online. For seven years we've been running face to face events at one a month and during lockdown, we've increased, I think we've run about 19 events. And our plan for next year is actually 30 events, with only four of those at the moment sheduled for face to face but that could change because of whatever happens with the restrictions. But our model next year is an online membership, or a hybrid membership with online and in person. We've been able to reach further online and we even had someone call in from Toronto to one of our meetings and we had a very first online event we had someone in Gippsland, someone in Penang, and someone in outer Melbourne. So online does allow you to connect with a broad range of people.
Leah Lambart 8:56 That's fantastic. And well, a lot of our listeners are from all parts of the world so maybe they can join in on the next one. Kerryn, you've obviously spent a lot of time with people trying to help them with their networking skills. What do you believe are the most common fears that people have when it comes to networking?
Kerryn Powell 9:16 I think they fear judgment and they fear not being able to say the right thing. And expectations of other people makes them nervous. I would say just go out and have a conversation and a chat. In fact, one of my relocating families, the husband had settled into work, the children are in school, and I asked her how she was going and she was lonely. And I talked her through how to have a conversation at the school gate while she was waiting for her children to come out, even just to talk about the weather. From a networking perspectivem you might ask 'How did you hear about this event?', 'What brought you to this event?' 'What are you currently working on in your business?', 'What opportunities are you trying to seek out?' Just have some questions prepared and then listen. I think a lot of people think that networking can get a bad name in regards to business because people think it's a sales conversation, and it's not, it's about connecting and seeking out opportunities and building relationships. The sale can come from it, but it's not what networking is about, in my opinion.
Leah Lambart 10:31 Yeah, that's right. And I think there's so many people that really struggle with that small talk, and feel that they need to go to these events with an elevator pitch about themselves, I always say 'make it about them' and just ask lots of questions and be curious. And that will lead to conversation, you don't have to have this sales pitch prepared.
Kerryn Powell 10:55 I also like to tell people that you actually don't have to be at a networking event, you just need to know how to turn your conversations into business, or turn your conversation into finding what you're wanting to find out. Because you're talking all the time, if you're at a gym class, watching your children do gymnastics, or you're standing by the river watching your children row, or you're standing at the school gate, or you're buying a coffee in your office building, you are connecting, and it's about giving of yourself and I like to think of it about not what's in it for me, but how can I help somebody else? How can I help them achieve what they're looking for?
Leah Lambart 11:39 That's right. And I think, you know, some of the best networking I've done this year has probably been at the dog park, talking to people with dogs who come from careers that I would never normally come in touch with. It brings people together doesn't it, often even these informal activities.
Kerryn Powell 11:56 It does and you get past that 'What do you do?' question which I dislike intensely to what the person is really about and the essence of that person. Just recently I was at a workshop, and the participant had to leave to go to an award ceremony for one of his children and I inquired about what that award was and it was a life changing award. It changed somebody's life. But that changed the connection between us immediately from talking about business to having a heart to heart connection.
Leah Lambart 12:39 So what sort of advice would you give to people who are really fearful of even joining an online event, what would you say to them?
Kerryn Powell 12:57 I would say 'step out of your comfort zone' because you will be surprised what you learn. And you can often feel that it's just too hard, but I would say I have never been to an event where I haven't come away thinking I was meant to be there because of XYZ. So I think it's having the courage to put yourself out there a bit. And knowing it's not something that you can't do, you just need to have a bit of intention and the intention could be as simple as 'I'm going to speak to three new people and then I'm going home'. Once you get through talking to three people, you'll think, oh, that's not so bad and you'll probably end up staying for the rest of the night. So I think having some sort of intention that it can be as simple as talk to three people. And I also don't believe if you're going to a networking event and I suppose online is the same thing as you get put into a Zoom Room, you don't have to speak to everybody that's at the event. You need to only have three or four good conversations, and really have deeper, more meaningful conversations because you want to get past a level one conversation where someone's just answering on a very superficial level, and get down to what it is that drives them and why they do what they do, and how that can help others. And it may help you or it may help someone else in your network and you become a bit of a conduit and that happens to me all the time.
Leah Lambart 14:39 I think this year these online events, and probably going forward into next year, it's actually a really good opportunity for people to attend some events who may not have the courage to go to a face to face event. They can actually practice online and maybe even join some groups and meet some people before theface to face event starts again.
Kerryn Powell 15:02 Absolutely. And I know that the very first online event that we ran, we had 20 people, I think, who knew each other because they were part of the YTM community. But when I look back to the event we ran last week, everyone was so much more comfortable, having met up a couple of times each month for the last seven months, and the conversation was really quite normal. And in fact, one of the participants who had started at YTM, about three years ago, and he's quite quiet, was one of the panelists, and the level of confidence has increased enormously, because you're sitting in your own home. So you're in a comfortable surrounding, you might be dressed on your top half, but the bottom half can be in your pajamas and your ugh boots if you want it if that makes you feel comfortable. So it is a good place and particularly with YTM events, we do have a structure and so basically you're guided through and I suppose that's where my teaching background comes in. And I didn't expect to be teaching adults how to have conversations and how to network. But that's what I really do now.
Leah Lambart 16:16 That's right. And I think when you attend an event where there is a speaker, or there's a subject matter to be discussed, that's much easier people for people, isn't it rather than just attending something and grabbing a drink and feeling like you've got a mill around the room. Kerryn Powell 16:33 Absolutely. I built my business on going to networking events to learn skills and knowledge to build my business. And now, we always have insight, at every event, over the three or four different formats that we run, we have like a 45 minute input, or we have a 20 minute input and then the conversation includes conversation about what we've learned from the speaker. So last week, the topic was The Future of Work and we had an architect who talked about planning your home and how your workspace might be, we had an HR businessman talk about engagement of teams when they're separated, we have my son who works for a global team and he talked about bringing up young children and managing a global team and the transition from work to home. And then we broke into rooms and talked about our own situations during that period, and then came back together and talked about the future of work and whether we're going to have to have a living wage. And then we discussed about what that meant, and whatever. So we give purpose to the conversation and that helps you to get a deeper relationship with the people that you're networking with.
Leah Lambart 17:49 Yeah, that's fantastic. I feel like we meet so many people who are introverted and are actually really avoiding any sort of work that relates to dealing with people because they're just so uncomfortable making small talk. In your experience, is that something that can be learned?
Kerryn Powell 18:08 I think that introverts make fantastic networkers because they're great listeners. So they just have to have four or five really good questions up their sleeve, and then be curious and interested, they don't have to hold the floor, they don't have to talk, they just have to be interested and bit by bit, become more comfortable. It is possible to do and it is challenging, and I've learnt to do it. I guess I used to talk to anybody when I was a child, but I also can go to a networking event, in fact, went to one with my husband and I went with the intention that I was going to talk to three new people. And I got there and I thought I don't really feel like doing that tonight. But I saw a lady standing by herself and I told myself that I had made this intention. And I went over to her and said "Hello, I'm Kerryn Powell". And she said, "thank you so much for coming and talking to me". When I've talked at a conference and said "everybody stand up or sit down if you find networking uncomfortable?" and half the room will sit down. So if you are uncomfortable at networking, you are not the only one. So take on that presence of making someone else feel comfortable is a good way of getting over your nerves to take the focus off yourself and put it onto helping someone else.
Leah Lambart 19:38 Great advice - look for someone who might be struggling more than you are and might be feeling more uncomfortable. In the coaching work you do Kerryn, can you help people come up with those four or five questions for small talk, whether it's at the school gate or at the beginning of an interview? Oh, you have some cards!
Kerryn Powell 19:59 Yes, it was one of the highlights of YTM over the last three years. The first events that we ran were speed networking events, and I used to actually have a placemat that had the questions on the mat, and you could choose which ones you wanted to ask. But speed networking is a very scary place, particularly if you're a quieter networker. And it's not a real conversation, you're sort of having a conversation that's very superficial, and very salesy. So I created a set of cards, and in one format, we actually play cards. So you get dealt five cards. And then you actually talk about those cards. So when I originally designed them, they were for you to ask the question. Now, how we play it often is that I read out the question, and then I answer it and have a time limit. And the people at the table with me are in the room with me get to hear. But what also happens is you think, 'What would I say?' or 'That's a good question' or 'I'm so glad I didn't get that one because I wouldn't know the answer'. So your card might be 'what does success look like to you?', or it could be 'Tell me what you're currently working on?', or it could be 'What is your why and your reason for being?' And so you get a feeling of other people. So, when I work with someone, we work out what would be the best questions for them to get the result they're after. And practice then being able to articulate how they help or what they offer, or how they can open up further opportunities. And also during COVID, I actually created a game called 'Conversations Count'. It's a board game and you can move around the board game. And one of the questions for example is, 'what do you hope to do that you've never done before?' so you get to learn about other people and from that, it gives you a basis to have a conversation.
Leah Lambart 22:06 I love that. It's so interesting, like I I've never really ever had any problems with small talk but just occasionally you're put into a situation where you don't know anything about the topic. So as an example, a friend of mine took me to the golf recently, to the President's Cup. She's a keen golfer, and she was there to network and invited me as a guest and I did say to her '"look, I'm not a golfer, I feel like this is a bit of a waste on me". But she was adamant I should come, but in the clubhouse at the President's Cup, I felt for the first time very out of my depth because they were all very serious golfers and I understand a little bit about golf, but not the way that day was being scored or held. And I thought this is how people feel when they go to these events and don't know what to say, because it was the first time that I'd felt like that for quite a while.
Kerryn Powell 23:05 Yeah. So I think if someone's prepared, and they know they're going into that sort of situation, you know, a question like, 'What got you involved in golf in the first place?' or 'How did you get to participate or be on the panel?' or whatever it is, because people like to talk about what they're doing themselves, and some more than others. But if you were armed with a few questions beforehand, you can practice those and feel a little prepared.
Leah Lambart 23:36 If I get invited next time I might book in a session Kerryn!'
Kerryn Powell 23:41 You can also download some conversation starters from my website.
Leah Lambart 23:49 Tell me some of the success stories that you've seen come out of people joining the YTM group?
Kerryn Powell 23:59 Confidence is a big one. Confidence in their own ability to articulate what they do, confidence in recognising that they can solve a problem that somebody has. I actually have a testimonial that one of my people wrote: " Upon entering the world of business, I spent many years as a casual employee coming from a working class background. I initially thought that business networking was way out of my league. Whilst it was quiet at work one night at a bar I was working at, I saw an advertisement for Kerryn's Your Time Matters appear on my social media. I had always wanted to be my own boss. The work wasn't constant and I was advised by Centerlink to sign up to Nice. I got accepted into Nice and over the next nine months I entered the world of networking. Kerryn made me feel comfortable and I credit her for giving me the confidence to socialise with business people without fear of judgment. Once I completed my Nice course, the number of connections I've made has been astounding. Since then business has been great and allows me freedom I couldn't imagine, the phone rings constantly and people at networking events are happy to see me. It's nice to feel appreciated. Thanks, Kerryn, you changed my life". And I remember the night that Simon came to the event and he came up the stairs incredibly nervously. And I could tell that he was feeling really uncomfortable. And fortunately for him at that particular event, we had about nine people, sometimes at YTM, we may have a bigger crowd, the biggest event for us is about 43 people live. So it is sort of a bespoke atmosphere, which also therefore makes it less scary to be in a smaller group. I remember my first event I went to was 400 people, and I actually took my husband with me because I was a bit nervous about going which was so funny. And when Simon shared what he did, we were also interested in his work and how he'd got into that. So, it's been lovely to watch his growth over the last five years through social media and I've kept in touch with him. We also have a couple of other members that come to mind who had started businesses by themselves. They had left being employees and had decided to start their own business in their own right. And that person's confidence has grown enormously in her ability to talk about her business, to present in front of other people and to hold the floor. And in the other case, being able to use a PowerPoint presentation and to convert people's thoughts about using a cloud accounting system. And just that personal growth is, once again, the teacher in me just loves to see people become more comfortable and stretching themselves. And in fact, you know, I will deliberately ask people to stretch themselves and encourage them to take up the gauntlet and it's a very generous and kind community and everybody wants you to succeed. So it's good for business, it's good for you to develop your ability to articulate what you do, and to be able to help other people achieve what matters to them.
Leah Lambart 27:44 Fantastic. So if someone was interested in joining the group, are there eligibility criteria that they have to meet? Or how would someone go about joining?
Kerryn Powell 27:55 Sure, we're not single category, because we believe people work with people that they know, like and trust. And in fact, we have three bookkeepers / accountants in the group, and they often will collaborate together. So we do have a lot of professional service people mostly B2B sort of service providers. Although we have had people in the property industry, we don't, don't have a criteria, we are very inclusive and open and welcome people to come. But we're not for everybody, not for people who are looking for fast transactions are not necessarily going to be attracted to YTM. But people who value professional development, who value connection and conversation and the opportunity to grow personally and professionally tend to stick around. We've just released our memberships for next year and I am delighted to say that so far with the conversations we've had, nearly everybody's reapplied, and some of them have been with us for this will be our eighth year. So they like what we do and have moved into online. So you know we've pushed the limits a lot this year for them as well to suddenly take up zoom calls. And in fact, we had some zoom social events during COVID. We had a trivia night one night, we had an art therapy night and we had a games tonight as well. Not everybody came to every event but the opportunity was there if they wanted to and so we managed to stay quite connected. And we're having an in person picnic in a couple of weeks, and nearly everyone's coming. So one person who joined during COVID said that he thinks we're just talking heads so he's looking forward to meeting us soon.
Leah Lambart 29:53 Oh, well done, and I assume people can maybe come as a guest to give it a try before they join?
Kerryn Powell 30:00 They can come as a first timer. There is still a fee, but they certainly can do that as well.
Leah Lambart 30:08 Kerryn, in between creating a board game and all these events, I know you've also started an online course to help people with business networking. How would someone benefit from that course?
Kerryn Powell 30:24 It's called 'How to Start or Improve your Business Networking' and it's three modules. And the first module looks at what is a network, the power of a network and the networks that you have. A lot of people forget that they have a network from their education, from their baby playgroup, from past jobs, from their neighborhood, from this cycling club, or whatever. So we talk about the different networks and the different stages of networking. So going to a networking event is purely the tip of the iceberg. And you need to work on the relationship to get down to the profitability part, and the profitability part doesn't have to be money, it maybe just a good quality relationship. And it's not going to happen overnight. Networking's not a fast fix, it's a slow burn. But if you put in the effort, it's so rewarding. And so the support is there, from people that you get to know like and trust. And for me, that's important. I had a period when my parents split up, there was a period in my life where I felt incredibly unsupported. And I don't want people to feel like that, I want them to know that there is always a way and there is always some someone there to help them, and they just have to be able to find that way.
Leah Lambart 31:52 And that's so important, because as you said, the first step is meeting people. But then often people don't know how to nurture that relationship and how to keep in touch.
Kerryn Powell 32:04 That's right. So then the course goes on to talking about who is it that you want to meet? And why do you want to meet them? And where do they hang out? Where are you likely to meet them, and what sort of conversations and how to build a networking strategy, and how to nurture the relationship, because the other thing that often falls down with networking is follow up. In fact, it's probably the thing that people are worst at. And they don't know how to do it. So it gives a bit of an overview, how you need to follow up when you've met them. And if you're looking for a role and you meet somebody, then you need to nurture that relationship and connect on LinkedIn and keep the conversation going. And you don't have to be hounding someone but you need to stay top of mind and build on that relationship by perhaps sending them an article that might be interesting that you've been talking about, or making an arrangement to have a coffee or a zoom call. And you know, that sort of plan, prepare and follow up to to build your network.
Leah Lambart 33:11 I think often people think about who they know, but they forget who their networks' network is. Kerryn Powell 33:18 Absolutely. And that's, that happens a lot is that 'it may not apply to me'. And I think that's one of the things that can happen at a networking event that sometimes people are very quick to think 'this person's not my target' and go and talk to someone else. But if they haven't invested the time, they don't know who I'm connected to, for example, you don't know anything if you don't invest the time, you don't know my career history, or the people that I've connected - over 3000 business owners, so there's probably someone there that I can hel at least open a conversation with to get to another stage. So never make assumptions that this person is not worth your time because I don't believe that in one point.
Leah Lambart 34:05 Yeah, well, one of the fun facts that I like talking to clients about, because so often my clients say, "Oh, I don't really know anyone, we're introverts we don't really socialise". And one of the facts that I read about was that most people know at least 150 people if they added up people from school and church and sporting clubs and mothers groups and all of that, and if someone like you would know thousands, but if everyone knows 150 people, and they all know 150 people, then you have a second degree network of 22,500 people.
Kerryn Powell 34:40 That's right. And even if you want to get really tough on yourself and think you only know 20 people and each of those 20 people know 20 people, then your circle grows quite quickly. Then there's a difference between know. like and trust, as well so you can know a lot of people, but that doesn't mean that they're necessarily are the right connection or would be someone that you would necessarily go to in time of need. But it's very much important to just think about those relationships that you have got and can utilise to help you find your pathways forward.
Leah Lambart 35:22 Kerryn, just to finish off, if you had three tips for people who have a fear of networking, what would they be? Kerryn Powell 35:34 Gosh, there's so many. So, three, we'll talk about people who find networking more difficult. First one is practice. Practice makes perfect and just practice having conversations, download the 'conversation starters' download from the YTM website for a start, which will give you five conversation starters that you could use at a networking event, and practice them, practice them with your family. Practice with your friends, get some confidence, consider how you can make a difference and help others so deflect that nervousness from yourself onto how you can make a difference in someone else's life. I like to think about connections and contributions and community. So how can you make a connection? How can you contribute? And how can that help somebody else. And understand that most people feel the same way as you do, that you are not alone. Everybody has moments when they feel uncomfortable. I interviewed Sarah Bruce who's in the online course and she said her life had changed by networking, and just going out and having a chat, and has found just so incredibly valuable to put that foot forward, and just give it a go. And I think you've got nothing to lose. And there's so much to gain.
Leah Lambart 37:16 All great advice. So Kerryn, if people want to find you, you have two websites, can you just explain what they are? Kerryn Powell 37:26 So www.YourTimeMatters.com.au is predominantly about the events that we run and also our mentoring services. If someone would like to work with us, one to one, my husband is a business strategist so he's also part of the business. And the other website is www.thenetworkcatalyst.com.au, which is my personal brand website, which can you can also find on the www.kerrynpowell.com.au website, and that is very much about connection, contribution and community. I also have a podcast where I have conversations to amplify and inspire people about how they can develop and learn so much from a conversation. In fact, one of the podcasts is about two people who met at YTM, who came to promote their business. One is a CEO of a not for profit that collects bikes and sends them to Africa. The other is a business development manager for a solar energy company. And between the two of them, they've now sent recycled solar panels to Africa, which are on the workshop for the Africans who have learned to fix the bikes and use the bikes as a means of transport and also employment. And that came out of a conversation at a networking event. So you just never know where the conversation will take you. And so I work with people one on one, specifically helping them to identify who it is they want access to, and how to find those opportunities.
Leah Lambart 39:07 Fantastic. Look, I'll put all of those websites in the show notes, so anyone who wants to contact Kerryn can can get in contact and find out more about what she does. Thank you so much Kerryn, I've loved chatting with you today and I think your advice about networking hopefully will inspire someone to get out of their comfort zone and and ask lots of questions.
Kerryn Powell 39:30 The tagline for YTM used to be 'learn, grow and achieve', that is 'learn about yourself and others, grow your knowledge, your confidence and your business and achieve whatever it is that matters to you'. It changed to 'make every conversation count' - build relationships, build trust and build business and it all goes hand in hand. Thanks very much for having me, Leah.
Leah Lambart 39:55 It's been a pleasure. Thanks, Kerryn.